Blatant Media Bias: "Caught-: BBC's Shocking First Response to Terror Attack"

Great stuff, Krishna. Thanks for this.

while the headline was stupid

the palestinians are victims, if the UN came into say Indiana and told everyone who has lived there for the 2 or three or ten family generations and owned land, that they had to leave and it didnt matter where and there would be no reimbursement

but at least the indians who got "back their promised land" would have some great farm land in the deal

but in the case of the Palestinians they lived there oh i dont know 1000 or so years

but by some of the most incredible logical leaps in history the jews still have rights to the land that they committed genocide to take in the first place

but hey whatever screw those Palestinians, right

While I argue with krishna a lot. And there is some spin on both sides about the creation of israel, the myth that the Un went in, and kicked all the palistinians out of their homes and drew border is simply untrue. Yes palistians have lived their for 1000 years and many still live there.. but want to know something else.. the jews never left, they too had been their for 1000 years and and as hard as it to belive.. a good bit of that time was in peace and brotherhood.

now you can argue about land israel took since then and about the settlemnts today.. but be perpard to argue about the arab/isreali war.

Joules I acknowledge the honesty of the post (truthful)

(ps) krishna is often right

Only 7% of Palestine was Jewish pre-Zionist movement. They lived peacefully within the Arab regime. The rest of the Israeli population is European, Ethiopian, and American.

You know, I bet if everyone really took a history lesson we all might be more in tune with each other than we thought.

As Joules says, Jews had been there for thousands of years also. Also, I do believe that there was never an ethnic race called the "palestinians." Even the word "palestine" does, I believe, have its roots in the Greek, then Roman word "Palestina" which was a Roman province.

The "palestinians" are a group of people who were welded together, really, by their geographic location and are relatively recent in origin.

Wiki-Def of Palestine and Palestinian

Really, this term is now used to denote those who left/were thrown out of that geographic area when the State of Israel was created.

So, beginning with that understanding may allow people to look at this issue more concretely.

It shouldn't be about religion, it should be about people.

But, there ain't no chance of that happening.

Yes, Jews have lived there for thousands of years. And yes, there is not an ethnic race called Palestinians. There's also not an ethnic race called Americans, or Europeans, etc. Ethnicity is not synonymous with nationality. I'm not sure what your point is about the linguistic-historical background of the term Palestine, but yes, you are correct "Palestinians" are a group of people welded together by their geographic location and are "relatively recent in origin." Same as Americans, or any nationality.

Historically, that "geographic area [where] the state of Israel was created" has and has had both an Arab identity and a separate "geographic" identity - not necessarily nationality, since no such state existed, of that you're correct. There are many interesting books to read on Palestinian identity, my personal favorite is "Palestinian Identity" by Rashid Khalidi (yes he's Arab.) My favorite book on Israeli identity happens to be "How Israel Lost: The Four Questions" (Yes, he's Jewish.)

I too agree, strongly, emphatically, that this shouldn't be about religion. I do not believe it is about religion, I think that religious sentiments are a strong part of the language of both sides, the culture of both sides, so that religion becomes a scapegoat used by both sides to validate and justify it's actions - the Palestinian extremists misrepresenting Islam to broaden its group of supporters, and by the Israeli government re-iterating its Jewishness and the Holocaust to institute its past victimhood in its current status. I strongly agree, though, that this is not about religion. As you said, it's about people.

To me, though, what gets lost is what people it's about. It's not about Jews who were cast out of Egypt in the Bible, it's not about the Arabs who have lived on the land with the Jews for thousands of years, it's not even about, it's not about the Holocaust survivors and victims, it's about the men, women, and children living in the area and struggling for peace and prosperity but whose governments are failing them. The Israeli government is failing its people by routinely sabatoging peace efforts (this is historically documented and fairly easy to look up) and denying its citizens the right to live freely in their land without fear of constant attack by the extremists in the land their country currently occupies. Studies and polls routinely show that a majority of Israel wants peace and is willing to recognize Palestine as a state, recognize borders, and is against further settlements on Palestinian land. And the Palestinian people have been failed by its own quasi-government's (one cannot have a government without a state, and even though they attempted a democratic election it only further perpetuated their plight through severe economic sanctions) - the PLO under Arafat was corrupt, thoroughly, thoroughly corrupt, and at the time of the democratic elections Hamas was supporting healthcare and education and seemingly provided more protection from Israel than the PLO could provide. This backfired, and now a majority of Palestinians no longer support Hamas. However, the economic sanctions and extreme Israeli economic and military force in the area has left little, if any, employment available outside of joining Hamas. U.S. is partly to blame for this, because once again, our government's unwillingness to study the history and culture of the area, to understand the nuances and differences that make it so difficult for Western culture to understand Middle Eastern culture, has allowed Hamas to be the last remaining choice for many Palestinians trying to support their families.

There's so much I wish I was awake enough to talk about, to give examples for. Such as why women claim they are proud their sons died martyrs, what that martydom represents, why Islam can be/has been manipulated by extremists, the role honor plays in Muslim culture.

Long story short, I too, believe it should be about the people. I want it to be about the real, living, breathing, human people, Israelis and Palestinians alike, who both are the victims of attacks from one another and from their government's firm denial of what they want to see happen for themselves and the other side. And Americans, too. Why aren't more cultural anthropologists and Mideast experts speaking up? It's a shame. Why is it so difficult - unless you begin to know where to look - to get real information about real people? All we know is what mainstream culture tells us and the shape they mold their information. Most Americans don't have time to research this stuff, and most of the research, to be honest, is reading history books. Not nearly as exciting as the stuff you read on blogs like this. We obviously do have the time, though, if we can spend the time here.

What it is about, at the root, is the fact that the palestinians have become shock troops for other countries, and those countries (arab) do not wish to lose such troops.

They have, in essence, become the fall guys. And the other countries, Syria, Iran, do not wish to have to act directly against Israel.

The palestinians are well and truly screwed, I am afraid, for their leadership is completely beholding to foreign governments who don't give a damn about palestinians except that they die in the way they wish for them to die.

I agree that Palestinians are beholden to foreign governments who don't care about Palestinians. Syria, Iran, Jordan, and Egypt s politicians all use the Palestinian cause as a platform to stay in power, but their actions do not represent their supposed good intentions. Jordan made secret pacts to take whichever land leftover after Israel raided Palestine back in the 40s, and Palestinians living in Jordan are treated as second class citizens and resented because of the economic hardships supporting these refugees has caused Jordan (not to mention the Iraq refugees impact on the country as well.) Syria has been in secret negotiations with Israel for years over getting Golan Heights, and Egypt has closed off its borders (even if temporarily opened recently) to the Palestinian people leaving them trapped without proper electricity or running hospitals, unable to get food, medicine, and jobs needed to survive. To say that the Palestinians are victims of the Israel regime is definitely true, and uncontestable. The land of Palestine is defined as occupied territory and Israel is the occupier and its government makes no secret of its military preference for "pre-emptive" and "excessive" force in the area. But the Arab countries surrounding Palestine, the countries Zionists (not necessarily Israelis or Jews, but nationalists who don't believe in Palestinians as an entity) claim the Palestinians are really a part of, further harm their livelihood as well. As as a quick side note, I find it very confusing why other Arab states are deemed responsible for taking in Palestinians or how Palestinians "belong" to those other states - if a European country was invaded would it be up to the other European countries to take responsibility for the refugees? Because they're all European anyway? There seems a basic kind of neglect and racism in claiming all Arabs are the same and denying cultural heritage and denying the role that geography always plays in culture. Americans are Americans first, then Irish-Americans, German-Americans, etc., because they are geographically represented as a unity. And even though the Palestinian statehood is more complicated than that, since the current Arab countries, while not as new as Israel, are fairly new themselves and their borders drawn up by England and France, it's still a shame that people aren't more respectful of the one billion Muslims cultural differences - Canadians, Americans, and Europeans are not all deemed the same and interchangeably referred to.

My point being, if I have a point, is that people who put in their two cents about the Mideast should take the time to make sure their points are intelligent and factually based. Everyone has a right to an opinion, absolutely, but what Americans seem to be forgetting, especially in the blog culture, is that an educated opinion is everyone's right, not smear-based propaganda based on "gut feelings" or mass media representations. If you find something interesting enough to talk about than it should be interested enough to learn about. (This isn't being said against anyone in particular, I have no issues with anyone, but just a general reaction to many of these posts.)

I have already read it, and am following the debate. Thanks, again.

i couldn't agree more

and a lot of American jews ive talked to think its a great idea

and besides how could something John Stewart is for be bad?