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"QURAN 4:34 - "Men have authority over women because God has made the one superior to the other, and because they spend their wealth to maintain them. Good women are obedient. They guard their unseen parts because God has guarded them. As for those from whom you fear disobedience, admonish them and send them to beds apart and beat them. Then if they obey you, take no further action against them. Surely God is high, supreme."
Qatar TV: Debate on Wife Beating as instructed in the Koran
Seeded on Tue Sep 8, 2009 9:53 PM EDT
Article Source: YouTube- Enjoy this article? Help vote it up the 'Vine.
- Public Discussion (88)
With some women nothing helps except beating
Readers of this column: Do you agree-- or disagree?
Prof. Dr. Harry Krishna
- 10 votes
Gee, what a nice way to say, "God knows women are the stronger sex because they bear the children, nourish the children, and have the LIMITED ability to protect the children from dumb, stupid men who have this undeserved sense of 'entitlement' that they can abuse the gifts 'God' bestowed them". BULL@!$%#! Mohammed married a NINE YEAR OLD GIRL; that just proves how insecure many men of the Muslim culture truly are. Got a small package? Marry a little girl to prove how BIG your manhood is. Mohammed is a pre-dated pedophile, a child rapist. Disgusting, nothing holy about an old man marrying, and violating, a little girl.
- 8 votes
holy sheep@!$%#, Krishna! You really know where to find the treasures, don't ya? For the Record: I strongly disagree with the Quran and the sap in the video. I would never beat a woman unless she came at me with deadly force and blood in her eye. And you know, after an incident like that, you can't live with her no more. ooh, gimme bad vibe thinkin about it.
- 6 votes
Disagree and those people are barbaric animals who think they are right and justified for doing so. Real men don't hit women. Any religion that supports treating women like animals or slaves and no rights I don't want any part of.
- 7 votes
The Koran is pretty clear about beating women, it seems an accepted practice, so for Muslims its OK to slap the crap out of the women.
I disagree with Islam on this issue. I think it reeks of a desert mentality which flourished a thousand years ago and needs to be put to rest.
I also think, like the bible, that it has been rewritten and addendum made many times without the 'public' knowing. This means we shall never know the true words of the original text.
Can anyone out there confirm that the Koran of today, was the same Koran from the beginning? If you take a Torah created in this century, and compare it with a Torah from two thousand years ago, it will be the same.
- 6 votes
The difference between these guys in the video and some other bible thumping ones, is that the bible thumping ones are not the subject of this video, even though both groups have some pretty gross material to be quoting from.
We need to leave those sorry beliefs far behind us. I find as much interest in finding nuances in this subject as I would in a discussion on how flat the earth really is: The earth is not flat. Period.
From my perspective, a debate on wife beating, whether from the Bible standpoint or the Quran, cannot be actualized in a positive manner. Seeking positive nuances in this subject is just plain wrong, and only serves to promote some shameful agenda - on all sides, I might add.
- 2 votes
The difference between these guys in the video and some other bible thumping ones, is that the bible thumping ones are not the subject of this video, even though both groups have some pretty gross material to be quoting from.
Yes. But a significant difference may be that talk by ministers advocating beating women is not diseminated widely on TV (or is it-- it wasn't when I watched TV, but i haven't watched TV in years-- don't even own a working TV-- maybe now there are a lot of ministers on TV advocating beating women..?)
IMO, one can find all sorts of weird texts-- evfen individuals , in all religions. But the impoertant question is-- is it a real trend? Is it widespread?
- 3 votes
...But the impoertant question is-- is it a real trend? Is it widespread?
Allow me to condemn the whole thing and move on to a brighter future: All women belittling movements deserve to be crushed without mercy.
I wanted to point out that the Koran does not have a monopole on women mistreatment prescriptions. It was important that I did so because I felt that this article is using this sorry to attack Islam in particular, rather than attacking our patriarchal institutions in general where women still do not have equality right here in America for instance. It is all a matter of degree.
If you spare no one in your criticism, I will be right there with you.
- 5 votes
Karl, you comparing apples and oranges. This is about religion and it's treatment of women, not secular governments...
If you compared any other religion to Islam and treatment of women, you make sense, but not like this.
A spade is a spade.....
- 1 vote
those people are barbaric animals
Animals?
And ''those'' people are sweety pets?
By denial and silencel- they all are perfect
on the same scale it looks the the World is teeming with animals - who are in denial
- 3 votes
Obviously, since it is not justified by Jewish or Christian authorities, or taught, or encouraged, even if the justification exists in the writing there must be much stronger influences agaisnt such practices.
I know in Jewish religious law, woman's body is considered sacred and assault on her body is ground for immediate religious divorce. Anyway, how many religious Jews and Christians do you see that seriously debate possibility and extend of "physical" punishment for their "disobedient" wives?
- 4 votes
Anyway, how many religious Jews and Christians you see that seriously debate possibility and extend of "physical" punishment for their "disobedient" wives?
Well-- There might be a few random nutcases-- but its not a pattern. And I certainly haven't seen many advocating wife beating to mass audiences (on TV).
- 4 votes
how many religious Jews and Christians....
May be few , may be rndom but increasing due to economical reason, I don,t know and it,s not my cause , the same applies to muslems and .What I am commenting at is the ''mean implication embedded inside some posts''
They know that the very small population of gulf States is not all muslems and they know nothing about laws in other Arab countries that consider beating wife a good reason for divorce and more for imprisonment if the man wounded his wife,
But obviously those posters don,t care to know, they keep deliberately showing their ignorance and hatred by conflating small State like Qater with anothr billion of muslems , sure they don,t care to know...They like it in this way...(oh..the muslems...'those people' know them.. I am good and they,r bad !)
Shouldn,t they have a look at their lovely faces in the mirror and judge themselves before they throw up this ugly condescent?
The problem is that many people use their religion as justification and validation of that abuse.
I don't what religion it is and what doctrine they got.
Abuse is abuse.
- 2 votes
They like it in this way...(oh..the muslems...'those people' know them.. I am good and they,r bad !)
So, in other words, you're not so much upset that things like this is broad-casted on TV in Qatar, which implies that wife's beating is somehow accepted in this country, but the the fact that people outside the Muslim world have the opportunity to see them? And form wrong (wright?) impression about Muslims in general?
So instead of condemning these behaviour you suggest it should be swept under the rugs and be forgotten? Just because it does not happen in ALL Muslim countries?
But it happens in more than one, and one is too many.
- 1 vote
So instead of condemning these behaviour you suggest it should be swept under the rugs and be forgotten?
Putting words in my mouth is so predictable of you . try again, I am standing by what I,ve said
Yes abuse is abuse ''for religious reason or not' in Qatar and in Israel and Canada and in US if you watch Oprah and if you are not in denial over the lot of Western wives who flee house violence and stalking to live in protected houses . The point was not that violence of men is ok , you can yourself sweep it under the rugs..I didn,t
I condemn violence and abuse of women and children -anywhere- as much I condemn ((hatred and racism)) ferventing in some commens that intend to generalize every wrongdoing at billion of people and - call them animals- while they like an ostrish deny violence everywhere else
The problem is that many people use their religion as justification and validation of that abuse.
I don't what religion it is and what doctrine they got.
Abuse is abuse.
Exactly!
- 1 vote
ferventing in some commens that intend to generalize every wrongdoing at billion of people and - call them animals- while they like an ostrish deny violence everywhere else
I am sorry Fada, but you comment sounds like you are upset that things like this give Muslims as a whole a bad name. But whose fault is this? Do you have examples of conversations like the seeded one in any Western Country? Than, why don't you seed it?
There is family violence everywhere in a world. But nowhere in industrialised world conversation like this would be possible, in principle. Not once I ever heard any respectable person saying something like this - that wife can be physically punished under whatever circumstances.
In Jordan (one of the more "moderate") they just recently change punishment for men for "honor killing" from 3 months to one year. Big progress.
It's not other people's fault that Muslim countries look like they stuck in a time frame somewhere between 7 and 12 century A.D.
You are trying to stop people from criticizing and ridiculing some of Muslim customs. Instead you should try to change these traditions, so people from outside world don't see them as cavemen rituals.
- 5 votes
It's not other people's fault that Muslim countries look like they stuck in a time frame somewhere between 7 and 12 century A.D.
You are trying to stop people from criticizing and ridiculing some of Muslim customs. Instead you should try to change these traditions, so people from outside world don't see them as cavemen rituals.
Indeed.
of course not all muslims in the world engage in hese practices-- nor even approve of them.
But so many do-- and in so many countries.
People tend to generalize and make stereotypes-- but human nature isn't going to change. The stereotypes of Muslims arent going to change until more of them rise up to put an end to the widespread human rights abuses. Until more of them speak out-- unequivocably-- against terrorism!
Nd, btw, non-Muslims can do little to change these perceptions,. Muslims themselves muststart taking action-- or they will continue to be stereotyped.
- 3 votes
I am sorry Fada, but you comment sounds like you are upset that things like this give Muslims as a whole a bad name. But whose fault is this? Do you have examples of conversations like the seeded one in any Western Country? Than, why don't you seed it?
I don,t know how you read it like that? I am sorry either to say that you will not understand my true thoughts about all religions including Islam . I defend people not religions . I defend the majority of muslems against hatred and propaganda and generalization but I openly bash stupidity and violations of muslem fundamenalists on other forums , not on Vine because you all are doing enough
I don't seed topics about violence in western countries for the same reason, meaning that citizens in those countries are doing enough in attacking this phenomena, they don,t need my time for furher condemnation
But if you insist:
Stop Violence Against Women Campaign,, Violence against women in America and Europe -, Book
Blah. That's illogical, Karl.
[...]But don't feel bad if you don't quite understand the problem.[...]
This whole article is hypocritical and so is your attitude. This is not a true debate on "Wife beating as instructed in the Koran", this is in line with a series of other articles against Islam, period. The social case that is being used here to bring Islam to the forefront is just an artifice.
It has become a campaign, an idée fixe, a rally cry for the next crusade. Yet I find enormous similarities between accusers and accused in this domain. I see freaks from all religions condemning all others.
- 2 votes
No, I don't agree with that. Women are human beings, not chattel. If that's what in the Quran , then I can't understand why it be supported at all.
- 9 votes
#2 - Tue Sep 8, 2009 9:58 PM EDTNo, I don't agree with that. Women are human beings, not chattel. If that's what in the Quran , then I can't understand why it be supported at all.
I feel the same way-- this is just so wrong in so man ways. (But I imagine some here would say that we must 'respect other cultures". However, IMO, we must draw the line when it comes to actually inflicting violence on women or other minorities..)
- 8 votes
Does the Koran give a woman the right to beat her husband for being unfaithful to her, or stingy, or abusive?
I didn't think so.
Except for condemning stinginess, concepts like male monogamy and spousal abuse were alien to the culture of ancient Arabia, and to most cultures throughout the ancient world.
One of the only rights a woman had in early Muslim society was the right to inherit property. This probably stemmed from a Jewish law in the Torah stating that a man who only had daughters was obligated to make them his heirs (as opposed to more distant relatives like nephews, male cousins, etc.).
Apart from that, women had practically no say in the realms of marriage and divorce. That trend continues in the vast majority of Muslim countries today. i believe Tunisia is one of the few Muslim countries that has outlawed polygamy.
- 8 votes
Does the Koran give a woman the right to beat her husband
The poor women didn,t wait for permission from religious myths
- 2 votes
Lilith, these women who are part of this 'traditional' Islamic community and exposed to these abuses are born into this situation. They see their mothers, grandmothers, etc. suffer the same indignations and think it is just part of their natural conditions. In other words, they don't know better. Those who come to the USA learn there is another world out there and many want to break free. Some of these are killed in 'honor killings' while others are cut off from their families.
Muslims women are also catered to differently than Western women. For example, they cannot drive, but are driven everywhere. They must be accompanied when going to the market, so they don't get cat called, molested, robbed, etc. They raise the kids, keep the home, and don't have to work for a living (not all mind you but many).
They live in a man's world, but the men 'keep them' while the women live in a man's world but have few men to keep them.
- 5 votes
World, I know that but abuse is abuse and having been born into an abusive culture, religion, country or whatever still doesn't it make it right....
Women are human beings not property, not chattel and any form of oppression to that is wrong to me and I don't care if is the religion, if it treats women like that, then I cannot support it.
- 4 votes
World, I know that but abuse is abuse and having been born into an abusive culture, religion, country or whatever still doesn't it make it right....
Women are human beings not property, not chattel and any form of oppression to that is wrong to me and I don't care if is the religion, if it treats women like that, then I cannot support it.
Lilith41- Of course its not right. But I don't think he's defending it as just and fair-- rather IMO he's jusat describing how it actually operates-- how the unjust ssytem is perpetrated.
- 5 votes
Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. 23For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. 24Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything
- 2 votes
#3 - Tue Sep 8, 2009 10:22 PM EDTThis is precisely why I don't support any organized religion....
Rationalized and justified(!?) bigotry!
- 8 votes
Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. 23For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. 24Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything
I disagree with that notion as well! (However it seems a bit milder in that it doesn't command men to beat their wives..).
- 8 votes
This is precisely why I don't support any organized religion....
Rationalized and justified(!?) bigotry!
I wonder..are there religions that actually forbid that sort of violence?
- 3 votes
Ba'hai
Its a Muslim religion that recognizes a "prophet" from the 18th century I think it was.
Not very well liked by the rest of the Muslims but has been gaining momentum.
- 3 votes
Ba'hai
Its a Muslim religion that recognizes a "prophet" from the 18th century I think it was.
Not very well liked by the rest of the Muslims but has been gaining momentum.
Thanks-- I had forgotten about them.
Btw, they are definitely not a "Muslim religion"-- some of their views are considered blasphemous by Muslims-- that's why they are so terribly persecuted in Iran-- and some other Muslim countries.
Many have sought freedom in Israel (In fact, set up their International Headquarters there):
Haifa is the international headquarters for the gentle Baha'i Faith, which began amidst persecution in Persia in the mid-19th century.
Baha'is believe in the unity of all religions and believe that messengers of God like Moses, Jesus and Muhammad have been sent at different times in history with doctrines varying to fit changing social needs, but bringing substantially the same message.
The most recent of these heavenly teachers, according to Baha'is, was Baha' Allah (1817-92). He was exiled by the Turkish authorities to Acre (Akko), wrote his doctrines there, and died a peaceful death in Bahji House just north of Acre.
During one of His visits to Haifa in 1890, Baha'u'llah pointed out to his son the spot on Mount Carmel where the remains of the Bab, herald of the Baha'i faith, should be laid to rest in a befitting tomb.
The Bab's remains were hidden for years after he died a martyr's death in front of a firing squad. Eventually, his followers secretly carried his remains to the Holy Land.
I visited it when I was there-- beautiful shrine and gardens-- here are pictures and more information.
- 5 votes
I learned of it from an old American who with his wife became missionary's in her home country of Peru. From what they told me its actually doing quite well in South America.
- 2 votes
To whomever quoted Ephesians, you forgot the next verse, "25Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her" which states that men are obligated to lay down their lives for women. The point being they are each subject to one another in their own ways. Out of context, the verse is crap, but the chapter is an interesting account of what love was like 2000 years ago, keeping in mind the concept of romantic love as a norm wouldn't exist for centuries.
- 5 votes
I learned of it from an old American who with his wife became missionary's in her home country of Peru. From what they told me its actually doing quite well in South America.
The Bahaii are quite peaceful, and don't have any of the bullsh*t about doing nasty things to "non-believers"..IMO it would be grerat if they got more followers.
- 4 votes
Ba'hai
Its a Muslim religion that recognizes a "prophet" from the 18th century I think it was.
Not very well liked by the rest of the Muslims but has been gaining momentum.
More about Bahaii religion:
The persecution of Bahá'ís is the religious persecution of Bahá'ís in various countries, especially in Iran[1], where the Bahá'í Faith originated and the location of one of the largest Bahá'í populations in the world. The origins of persecution stem from a variety of Bahá'í teachings that challenge traditional Islamic belief, including the finality of Muhammad's prophethood, and places Bahá'ís outside the Islamic faith;[2][3] thus Bahá'ís are seen as apostates from Islam and must choose between repentance and death.
Here's why they are so persecuted in Iran and someother Islamic countries-- "thus Bahá'ís are seen as apostates from Islam and must choose between repentance and death."
- 4 votes
I wonder..are there religions that actually forbid that sort of violence?
I don't know if it was religion or not, but in the old Cherokee way, the woman owned almost everything. Even the children. Basically, the man owned his weapons and clothes and not much more. The woman also was the one who decided when the marriage was over. She did this by putting the mans stuff outside the shelter. I guess, if he beat her, he would be living under a tree somewhere. Also, no one ever beat a child.
- 1 vote
Men wrote the bible, Torah, Quran, ect.! Men who wanted their wives to be submissive. They say "God" said it so the women would believe them and be submissive.
What a load of crap!
I like the way it is for younger people where men and women raise the kids together, clean the house together, and cook together, respect eachother!
- 2 votes
This is precisely why I don't support any organized religion....
Rationalized and justified(!?) bigotry!
I think that may be true in many cases. But I'm wondering it its true in all cases. The Bahaii? The Quakers? Many branches of Buddhism? (possibly many American Indian religions...or those in Africa-- but I'm not familiar with them).
And, possibly..Santeria?
In fact, the are even may Muslims who speak out against extremism-- for example, Irshad Manji:
See the movie, spread the movement
Moral Courage Project: the launch
And, MLK was against injustice-- but what really motivated him to actually take action (in the face of great danger) was his deeply held religious views! (And on another level-- I ownder if the Civil Rights movement would've beebn so sucessfukl if there hadn't been such a cohesive and tightly knit network of black churches throughout the South during that period...?
- 3 votes
“A wife who refuses to perform any kind of work that she is obligated to do, may be compelled to perform it, even by scourging her with a rod” (Isshut 21:10).
Yehudai Gaon, 757–761: “…when her husband enters the house, she must rise and cannot sit down until he sits, and she should never raise her voice against her husband. Even if he hits her she has to remain silent, because that is how chaste women behave” (Ozar ha-Ge’onim, Ketubbot 169–170).
R. Samuel ha-Nagid (936–1056), was one of the first sages to advise the husband to beat his dominating wife so that she stay in her place. His attitude toward the domineering woman is that she can be hit in order to educate her. He writes in his book Ben Mishlei: “Hit your wife without hesitation if she attempts to dominate you like a man and raises her head [too high]. Don’t, my son, don’t you be your wife’s wife, while your wife will be her husband’s husband!”
Rabbi Perez b. Elijah of Corbeil: A man may chastise his wife and beat her (verberare) for her correction; for she is of his household, and therefore the Lord may chastise his own,
- 2 votes
#4 - Tue Sep 8, 2009 10:31 PM EDTBut again-- how widespread is this?
There are all sorts of individusals advocating nonsense in most religions.
- 6 votes
And how widespread is it in Islam? I'd say it's probably equal across all religions.
- 2 votes
And how widespread is it in Islam? I'd say it's probably equal across all religions.
Based on...what?
Is that just a guess based upon the assumption that all religions are basically the same?
Some Muslim countries are realtively progressive, and have a tradition of moderation-- Indonesia, Malysia, Turkey, Kosovo, a few others etc. Others are quite backward-- Iran (well, its rulers, anyway,... the people are divided), Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Libya, etc. And--- there are 20+ Arab countries...something like 50+ Muslim countries.
In most of these women and minorities have no protections form the barbarians...
Here's another example-- here's a 3 1/2 year old Egyptian girl-- quite fascinatinating. How many Christian countries wouild allow this on TV?
- 4 votes
And how widespread is it in Islam? I'd say it's probably equal across all religions.
Just curious-- have you ever been in a Christian church? How common do you thinks this sort of sermon is?
- 4 votes
Biggerthebetter - Keep in mind that you found three opinions of rabbis who were never the undisputed legal authority of their day. Also, all three lived centuries apart.
In medieval Europe, R' Meir Meor Hagolah outlawed polygamy by decree around the year 976. All of European Jewry accepted his decision.
Even during the Middle Ages, Jewish women could not be divorced against their will. Marriages were largely arranged, but that was the norm everywhere.
Spousal abuse was grounds for divorce in almost all Jewish communities. Legal mechanisms were in place to actually force a man to grant his wife a divorce if he was the negligent/abusive party.
- 7 votes
The Rabbi best not go to sleep at night, cause he would not be waking up.
- 1 vote
Wouldn't you think, that eventually, women would get a belly full of this crap and do a silent overthrow.......
Remember the Burning Bed!
- 4 votes
#5 - Tue Sep 8, 2009 11:11 PM EDTSomeone once explained to me that sociologically, the old idea that a woman was 'unclean' for her monthly period, and could not cook, or clean, or be touched by her husband, and had to live in a separate place for a week, and then have a ritual bath-- was actually a way to give the women a little vacation break every month from the daily grind of 'women's work'........ I certainly would have seen it that way.
- 5 votes
Wouldn't you think, that eventually, women would get a belly full of this crap and do a silent overthrow.......
Remember the Burning Bed!
They can't. The whole structure is set up to keep them second class citizens-- and the men have the power. A good beating often ends their resistance.
- 5 votes
Someone once explained to me that sociologically, the old idea that a woman was 'unclean' for her monthly period, and could not cook, or clean, or be touched by her husband, and had to live in a separate place for a week, and then have a ritual bath-- was actually a way to give the women a little vacation break every month from the daily grind of 'women's work'........ I certainly would have seen it that way.
Some of the separation by sex issues have reasons-- and I don't find them as horrifying as beating women...
For example, in many religions, woemn and men are separated in houses of worship. Some peopoe feel this is terrible-- but there's a reason. the idea is that people are supposed top be focusing on communicating with god- or the higher power, etc. Not peeking at the hottie across the aisle!
(Of course if you are a hater of religion, this seems cruel. But-- if peopple want to p[ractice a religion, I think they should have that right. But-- not to use their religion as an excuse to beat women...)
- 6 votes
There was a case in 2004 in Spain, where a women's right's group sued a Muslim spiritual leader who wrote a book instructing men how to beat their wives. The Spanish court agreed that this encouraged violence against women and sentenced the Imam to 15 months in jail.
The man in the linked video was endorsing wife beating of women with 'bad behavior' that can't be 'corrected' any other way- like the big crime of watching tv instead of making dinner.
- 5 votes
The Spanish court agreed that this encouraged violence against women and sentenced the Imam to 15 months in jail.
I'm surprised they had the cojones to actually go through with that.
- 5 votes
You are talking about a practice that is from primitive religions that based their faith based dogma on the social norms of the times. If you want to treat your female like your goat, by all means practice any faith like it was practiced when it was founded. I am not against God, and I believe in a higher power, but any one who tells me about God, I do not trust.
- 3 votes
#6 - Tue Sep 8, 2009 11:24 PM EDTbut any one who tells me about God, I do not trust.
Do you find, on occasion, that some people accuse you of being a bit..close..minded?
- 4 votes
Come on gals have you looked at this video ?
- 2 votes
#7 - Wed Sep 9, 2009 6:54 AM EDTI can't believe that piece of @!$%# on the video actually said beating women is a form of therapy then tried to make an analogy of it to justify it. Douche bag.
- 5 votes
Beating women is NOT a form of therapy nor diversion. Nor is beating anyone. The person who said that is either sick or evil. Take your pick.
- 5 votes
Beating women is NOT a form of therapy nor diversion. Nor is beating anyone. The person who said that is either sick or evil. Take your pick.
What's worse-- it goes beyond one person saying it. This was on TV-- a lot of people will be influenced by this :-(
- 3 votes
Krishna, only 'sheeple' be influenced by garbage like that....
- 2 votes
The bible and koran were written by MEN, what do you expect?
- 1 vote
#8 - Wed Sep 9, 2009 8:04 AM EDTNot this man. If I wrote it there would have been more sex ;-) real "Penny Dreadful" stuff
- 1 vote
The bible and koran were written by MEN, what do you expect?
Well-- I believe that some people feel that they are actually the words of God...the men merely wrote down what God said..?
- 3 votes
krish
Please do not throw the Bible on same bookshelf as the Koran.
- 4 votes
krish
Please do not throw the Bible on same bookshelf as the Koran.
Sorry-- guess I was unclear.
I didn't mean to imply that one-- or the other-- or both in reality were or were not. Rather, I was just trying to point out that there are people that believe that religious books (probably in all religions-- well, at least in most?) feel their holy books are the literal word of God. There others feel that these books are figurative and not to be taken literally. (For example, I've heard people say Moses really did lift his rod, and God really did make the sea part-- others feel that maybe the sea didn't part-- but rather,this story is very symbolic, and is not to be taken literally, but rather has some deep, but symbolic meaning. Anyway, I think I may have gotten a bit off the topic here.. so let's get back to wife-beating.
Whoops-- I mean the discussion of people who advocate it on TV, etc-- I did not mean we should all get back to beating our wives!
- 4 votes
Well-- I believe that some people feel that they are actually the words of God...the men merely wrote down what God said..?
No, Krishna..What G_d said was "interpreted" by man to mean what they wanted it to mean:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_the_Bible
- 1 vote
Where is the National Organization for Women ?
Why no outcry ?
- 2 votes
#9 - Wed Sep 9, 2009 10:10 AM EDTWhere is the National Organization for Women ?
Why no outcry ?
I've noticed that too. for some reason they seem to be very concerned with women's-rights issues in the west-- but when its in the third world they are silent (and in a few cases, they even seem to be apologists for these things-- or at least downplay serious abuse of women-- when its in the third world. Its strange..I wonder why?).
- 2 votes
Next you wonder why our President went over the Mid East apologizing for our country. Seems you would question a few of their behaviors.
- 3 votes
Who says that NOW doesn't? Just because it is not public doesn't mean they don't..
- 1 vote
So, because the bible said that we are before man, we are simply tools for man and must bend to their every will because we are only here to serve and reproduce? If not, we are beaten to 'correct' ourselves?
That's... depressing. Though it makes me relieved that I live in America, where at least we're seen as equal, men and women. Usually, anyway. My mother and step-father had that sort of relationship. Where she was the maid/house wife that did everything and had no money to herself, wasn't allowed any friends and was secluded to the house entirely. And when she misbehaved was when... us children were just locked in our rooms and... yeah.
Just depressing.
- 4 votes
#10 - Wed Sep 9, 2009 5:28 PM EDTWow, who knew treating women like cattle is cool in some places in the world? Women's rights is a staple of a advanced nation, one of the many reasons the Middle East is a third world @!$%#hole.
- 1 vote
#11 - Wed Sep 9, 2009 9:01 PM EDTthe Middle East is a third world @!$%#hole.
Well-- parts of it.
Some areas are worse than others...
- 1 vote
And this a growing "accepted" religion in the united states ?, where is the outrage here.
Will a public announcement be made on PBS on the proper way's to "correct your wife's behavior"
Is Rush Limbaugh a Muslim.
- 1 vote
#12 - Thu Sep 10, 2009 12:23 PM EDTSince when does anyone really believe that God took the time to converse with so many men? They all had differing discussions too. Apparently there is either more than one God or the men got it wrong. I vote for the latter.
- 1 vote
#13 - Thu Sep 10, 2009 12:34 PM EDTFirst I totally disagree , Now I have a question that may be a little bit off topic . We hear about how the men, after death are going to paradise with the virgins and a gold plated Ak-47 and all that, but whats in it for Muslim women? What does the afterlife hold for dedicated Muslim women?
- 3 votes
#14 - Thu Sep 10, 2009 8:35 PM EDTThey finally are ridded of their barbaric, abusive muslim husbands
- 2 votes
What does the afterlife hold for dedicated Muslim women?
I think - somebody has to be them virgins?
- 2 votes
Who really knows? No one's religious written texts are ever consistent. I'll bet the Muslim women get ripped off though....
- 3 votes
but whats in it for Muslim women? What does the afterlife hold for dedicated Muslim women?
I imagine that some of them are able to escape-- which of course would create a problem.
- 2 votes
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