CNN: Spreading Radical Islam in Britain

You know, history will look back on this period, and people will ask, "How did no one see this coming? How was it allowed to happen?"

God Bless America, and the patriots who will defend her from this menace.

Tangojones...

We saw it, we weren't ALLOWED to do anything about it....

And did you see the pictures of Obummer standing on a stage with Hillary and everyone had their hands on their hearts for the flag but HIM??
I was stunned.

Yes lassy, that's an infamous photo. And a good reminder of the true nature of his character. Barak Hussein Obummer, his administration and their ilk are exactly the kinds of protagonists willing to lead us down the road that Britain finds itself well along the way on. Giving away the store for political correctness. What's frightening is that he has so many slavish, willing followers.

Not to sound dramatic here, but it mirrors so many of the Prophesies and predictions, and not that I put credence into the whole thing, it does give one(intelligent people) pause to ponder.

And the blind shall follow....

Not to sound dramatic here, but it mirrors so many of the Prophesies and predictions, and not that I put credence into the whole thing, it does give one(intelligent people) pause to ponder.

And the blind shall follow....

I totally agree with that, Britlassy.

You're a funny bunny Krishna. But wkb spelled "cumming" wrong so back on topic you go.....[Laughing]

I was talking to Perrie a few days ago about radicals. After our conversation, I began thinking about a time in the mid 70's when I started noticing the "Mom & Pop" corner stores were suddenly being owned by Middle Easterners. The fact that they were buying the stores didn't bother me in as much as they quit stocking them as fully as Mom & Pop did. They carrried the bare essentials. Within 5 years, almost every one of the stores were no longer owned by anyone but Middle Easterners. I mentioned this to an elderly co-worker who told me they were buying them as a front and a way to make money to send back home for arms. I "poo-pooed" the idea but always kept the concept in the back of my mind.

Fast forward to 1990. I moved to a little suburb south of Buffalo called Lackawanna. The city was divided into 4 wards. The 1st ward for decades was where the blacks lived. You never heard a thing from them. Then one day, I noticed that somehow, very slowly and methodically the blacks disappeared and the Middle Easterners came in. The whole trend of taking over a City began. Starting with the 1st ward. Then they had a major set back....

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/sleeper/inside/

The Lackawanna Seven were the most dangerous sleeper cell in the country. Three of these guys went to school with Magoo's son. He knew them. He said they were pretty good guys. One of them, Yasein Taher was voted "friendliest" by his 1996 graduating class at Lackawanna High School. These were mostly kids born and raised in the U.S. This is what people don't understand. I firmly believe there has been a plan set in place many, many decades ago to take over the Western world. Look what's happening in Britain now. Look what has happened to the poorest of poor countries. The ones that have the diamond mines.

wkb is right. "Its real, its growing, and its coming...." And our government had better get it's head out of its ass and real quick. Radical Muslims aren't looking for peace. They're not looking to be friends. They're not out looking to live amongst us and assimilate the American way. They are looking to destroy anything that's good and righteous. And if anyone can't see this, when I started seeing it in my 20's, they have had their head in the sand all of their lives and they'll be one of the first to say, "WTF???" as they're being forced to make a decision. "It's either Allah or death."

Dammit Perrie! See what happens when you call and pull me out of my "fun mode"? You make me get serious. Stop it, I say. Stop it!

Man..I mean lady..You can give a speech! Who knew? Our dirty little dkaz has the fire of a good old fashion preacher !

I feel ya, praise the lord, I hear ya sister!

True-- but its not just the western world-- its the entire world.

I agree Krishna. But they started small. They knew who they could take over quickly. Remember the Bamiyan Buddhas? They had the huge statues that were carved in the 6th century. The Taliban destroyed them. My heart went out to those people. Can you imagine someone coming to your beautiful flower garden that you toiled over for years to look just right so you had a place to sit and reflect and they tore the hell out of it?

They want a Muslim state...

No. They want an Islamic Muslim world controlled by radical leaders or.....as we once called these types of people but because of political correctness, we can't.........the mentally disturbed.

And there's no compromise-- anyone who stands in their way will be victimized. (And, btw that goes for moderate Muslims as well as non-Muslims-- many Muslims themselves have been victimized of the violent jihadis).

You're right. Because if anyone clicks onto the link I provided the first sentence says....

"There was universal outrage - even in the Muslim world - when the Taliban made good their threat to destroy the Bamiyan Buddhas in an act of religious piety on March 1 five years ago."

Okay Perrie, can I get an "Amen"?

Amen Sister Dkaz, Lordy you speak the truth.

I agree Krishna. But they started small. They knew who they could take over quickly. Remember the Bamiyan Buddhas? They had the huge statues that were carved in the 6th century. The Taliban destroyed them. My heart went out to those people. Can you imagine someone coming to your beautiful flower garden that you toiled over for years to look just right so you had a place to sit and reflect and they tore the hell out of it?

I remember that, too. My sister in law cried over that. Those belonged to her ancestors. That was a big part of her faith and it's history. To have them last all those years and the beautiful history that went along with it, was truly a loss to the whole world.

. Here's one Arab mother who explains what she deeply wants for her son-- and why.

That's a clear case of being brainwashed. And what is the definition of brainwashed?

a method for systematically changing attitudes or altering beliefs, originated in totalitarian countries, esp. through the use of torture, drugs, or psychological-stress techniques.

That also constitutes being defined as mentally disturbed. Those people who are manipulated through the fear of death from their beginnings on this earth have no feeling. They're numb to life. They have no concept of what living is. So therefore, they have no fear of death because they died when they were born.

Dk,

I am shocked by your wisdom! To think I dragged you away from all those men, to share your thoughts with us.....

And well worth it!

Perrie,

I am shocked by your wisdom!

When my back teeth were pulled at an early age, the wisdom had to go either North or South.

Seriously, years of keeping my eyes open, my ears open and my head open caused me to see, hear and think the way I do. I've always tried to see the right and wrong in everything which really, anyone with common sense and feelings for his fellow man can easily differentiate between the two.

To think I dragged you away from all those men, to share your thoughts with us.....

I miss those guys. I've had the same cushion now for 2 weeks. No getting horny on articles like these.

And well worth it!

Thank you Perrie. You're too kind.

Well, obviously there are some people here on NV who don't do that, and have a great deal of difficulty doing that. I'm not sure what their problem is, why that is so...

I've always liked the saying, "We're all products of our environment."

To clarify, NIR = Natural Increase Rate. It's a fundamental tenet of Demographic Transition, along with birth rates, death rates, fertility rates, and all that other good stuff.

lol... yeah, we should've letting people into this country years ago from across The Pond, huh, Britlassy?

Try again, this time in English.

lol... yeah, we should've *stopped letting people into this country years ago from across The Pond, huh, Britlassy?

*my bad, was typing and talking at the same time

Muslim dictator Obumbler in Chief at the helm

Use of absurd phrases typical of hate mongering masters. In the end character assasination.

Use of absurd phrases typical of hate mongering masters. In the end character assasination.

Use of absurd accusations tyical of bleeding heart lefties who can't see the forest for the @!$%#ing trees.

WAKE-----UP-----WELCOME TO REALITY

I would SAY YES to your question, SchmittyJ.. they should not have entrance into this country.

lol... as before, you don't answer my question... I didn't ask if "they" should not have entrance to this country, did I?

I asked if we should've stopped letting people into this country years ago from across the Atlantic...

I would arrogantly put myself and whomever else that arrived here, and put skills to use to better their lives and others, not even in the same sentence much less in the same category.

That would include the vast majority of the Muslim immigrants you would seek to exclude.

I asked if we should've stopped letting people into this country years ago from across the Atlantic...

C'mon...that's a pretty dumb question. I myself am an immigrant (little 2 yr old from Sicily), as your grandparents may have been immigrants. Brit and myself are productive members of society, have assimilated, love our country and are not calling for the destruction of American culture. In Europe and elsewhere, when the muslim population grows to a large enough level, they begin to call for the overthrow of the country that welcomed them and supported them with welfare, and look to establish sharia law. If you can't recognize the difference, then you are beyond hope.

C'mon...that's a pretty dumb question.

Of course it's a dumb question... I'm pointing out the hypocrisy of decrying the exact same immigration policies that allowed you, her and all of my forebears to come here.

are productive members of society, have assimilated, love our country and are not calling for the destruction of American culture.

As are millions of Muslim immigrants here, as I stated before... that being the entire point of the difference.

Well Said Tango...

I get lost at times, in my verbosity!!!

Your post was excellent, Brit.

Schmit, I know your comment was sarcastic, but the point I was trying to get across to you is that your forebears and mine came here to become Americans. Muslims have no such intentions. You may accuse me of over-simplifying and generalizing, but I repeat...look at Europe, Britain and elsewhere. Do they appear to be assimilating into the culture that welcomed them? Right now their numbers are relatively low in the US, but that's changing. And with liberal policies and attitudes like Odumbo's, it won't be long till we face the same problems here.

tango,

Well, yeah... you are over-simplifying and generalizing... hugely, I might add.

your forebears and mine came here to become Americans

As did all of the Muslim families I know... they kinda bought into that whole idea of the 1st Amendment thing that some of us tend to value so highly.

it won't be long till we face the same problems here.

Perhaps... but that's always been the weakness of a free and open society. There will always be a few who will try to exploit that, but to end that free and open society would change this country so dramatically that it would no longer represent the U.S.A. that I love and served. As Benjamin Franklin said it best:

"They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security." ~ Benjamin Franklin

Franklin's sentiments are as true today as they were then, and I don't recommend giving up essential liberties, but at the same time our liberties should not be used against us by those hostile to our freedoms and way of life. As Justice Robert H. Jackson said in Terminiello v. Chicago,"The Constitution is not a suicide pact".

And if the time comes when the minority of Muslim extremists who publicly extoll such similar ideas here face the legal sanction for their actions, then it will have to be determined IF their speech violated the 1st Amendment standard requiring "evidence of a clear and present danger of substantial violence and disorder..."

Let's not forget that Jackson's opinion was the dissent to the ruling...

OK!

:-)

Shore 'nuff, ma'am. lol

what a emotional quickie comment off the top of head without any thoughts

Oh trust me there is an insane amount of thought behind that comment. However I feel I should save my breath because my rants generally fall on deaf ears. By Deaf ears I mean unrealistic Muslim supporters/sympathizers.

Krish, any speculations as to why the vast majority of so-called 'moderate muslims' are so silent about the atrocities and terrorisms of the radical muslims?

Great links as always, Krish! Thanks for helping us all really get smarter.

Even 1% of 1.5 billion is 15 million, a formidable number; and with the Islamists practicing taqiyya it becomes impossible to tell which ones are out gunning for us, for no other reason than our rejection of their self-assumed superiority.

If I was there when this demo was happening , I would ask them to demonstrate their faith by doing good deeds and not through macho slogans.

And if I were there I would have happily invited them to attempt to stop me from heartily screaming "death to muslim terrorists"!

Moshawn,

These radicals in England are doing the law abiding Muslims there great harm. Without other Muslims counter protesting against them, they are feeding into the BNP, who uses them as examples of why all Muslims and other foreigners should be thrown out of the country. Why don't the good law abiding Muslims come out and stand against these people? Don't they see that by not, that soon the tides will change for all of them?

And if you think it's bad enough having radical Islam rising, try having to deal with TWO radical groups rising in popularity at the same time:

http://www.israpundit.com/2008/?p=17799

That's ONE way to destroy a perfectly decent country.

The BNP is the singular biggest threat to England right now, and the radical Muslims are just what they need to put them into power.

Here is my article on the subject:

http://perrie.newsvine.com/_news/2009/09/14/3222942-of-nazis-nationalisim-and-the-british-national-party-the-perfect-storm-for-wwiii

Perrie

First of all I do not see that this group has a major influence except for show of posters and a wishful rhetoric. As far as the question of BNP, it could be that they and BNP are having some understanding. As far as the great majority of peaceful muslims are considered in UK they are busy 9-5 types and as good citizens come out and vote at election time. There are several British MP's who are muslims which proves that the majority is a part of the mainstream political process rather than associated with this small group of a dozen or so wishful teen agers. I do not see anything wrong in their demonstartion freely to present their view points peacefully as other organizations do in UK and elsewhere. Its good that they come out in open and express themselves peacefully rather than work behind the scenes in any illegal manner and thats when they have really violated themselves, there religion and country.

addon

I do feel this artilce here is just trying to make a mountain out of mole and is being used as an opprotunity by some on the vine to generalize it as an attack on the religion of Islam and muslims in general. I see no mention of the great majority of the peaceful law abiding muslim living in UK who are part of the peaceful process of contributing to the society their communities and the country.

http://hnn.us/blogs/entries/13160.html

http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?c=Article_C&cid=1203758837051&pagename=Zone-English-News%2FNWELayout

I am not against them speaking their minds. That is freedom of speech. I am saying that the best thing for the Muslim Community in England is for the Regular 9-5 muslims should counter protest. And why not? What is the harm? And you are underestimating the effect of the BNP. People said the same thing about the Nazi Party in the 1930's. History has a way of repeating it's self.

do feel this artilce here is just trying to make a mountain out of mole

Speaking up helps with the critical thinking. Historically, extremely bad little ideas have become mountains.

I am saying that the best thing for the Muslim Community in England is for the Regular 9-5 muslims should counter protest.

Their 'protests' are softer and not aimed for mass consumption so do not catch mainstream media. But they do get heard in the places that matter. In excellent TV documentaries across terrestrial channels, discussions, radio talk shows, etc. Here, in the UK. Don't base your opinion about what Muslims in the UK are doing or not doing based purely on what the 'net feeds you through your favourite sites.

Raat,

Their 'protests' are softer and not aimed for mass consumption so do not catch mainstream media.

I lived there. Just came back from there. Ummmm. No. But the BNP show up, and that is always lovely. There is always good coverage by the BBC, ITV, and Sky News of those events.

You obliterate them out of existence before they become a big monster.

Uh huh... and who, exactly determines what movement would become a big monster?

That's a slippery slope that opens up the validation of violence against all kinds of groups that some hypothetical entity would determine to be able to grow into "a big monster."

Last time I checked, we don't prosecute nor persecute people or groups for what they might do... only what actions they have already undertaken.

Any group who advocates the violent overthrow of a govt and the imposition of their belief system on an entire country. These lunatics are busy advocating the killing of everyone who is not Islamic. You've got to be kidding me. You don't think that people like that have the potential of becoming a huge problem and a threat to our way of life as we know it. Just look at what's happening in the UK. It's out of control. There's no way we can let the same thing happen in our country. Any group advocating violence and the overthrow of our govt should be nipped in the bud. You lose all the rights listed in the Bill of Rights once you start advocating the violent overthrow of our govt and the killing of innocent people just because they don't have the same belief system that you hold.

And btw, you're wrong. There are federal laws that prohibit advocating the violent overthrow of our govt. These monsters are advocating much more violent actions than just that.

Again,

Last time I checked, we don't prosecute nor persecute people or groups for what they might do... only what actions they have already undertaken.

You can look at Supreme Court decisions ranging from the words of Justice Brandeis in Whitney v. California to Justice Jackson in Dennis v. the United States. Either way, threatening to deport people smacks of McCarthy-ism... a rather shameful part of our nation's past.

If and when people take actions which fail the standards set and applied to the rights protected by the 1st Amendment, then they can and should face appropriate sanction. But not until then...

And again you're wrong

It is against a whole bunch of federal laws to even say that you plan to violently overthrow the US govt. And certainly saying that you plan on killing innocent people because they don't believe in the Koran would land you in jail. Try explaining yourself to the NYPD after you've made some of these threats.

It is against a whole bunch of federal laws to even say that you plan to violently overthrow the US govt.

Bull@!$%#... it's only against the law when it fails the 1st Amendment standards. Provide an example of anything otherwise.

Justice Brandeis himself said:

"Every denunciation of existing law tends in some measure to increase the probability that there will be violation of it. Condonation of a breach enhances the probability. Expressions of approval add to the probability. Propagation of the criminal state of mind by teaching syndicalism increases it. Advocacy of lawbreaking heightens it still further. But even advocacy of violation, however reprehensible morally, is not a justification for denying free speech where the advocacy falls short of incitement..."

We should throw out of this country people who support facist attitudes such as peach for trying to advocate and taking away our freedoms and violating the right of peaceful law abiding citizens. This kind of advocation and provocation by peach is nothing but hate speech against others who live in peace and family lifestyle in an open society paying there taxes and contributing positively to our society. I am sure if we let people like peach come into any decision making postion they will start a rebellion against their positions by taking action against innocent people and will result in a major court battles against their offices and eventual loss of our country credibility as a free nation. So I apppeal to all my freedom loving law abiding hard working tax paying country men to thawrt all attempts and condemn all a acts and speech by the likes of peach against us. Down with narrow minded and fear mongering hate spreading Peach and the likes.

God Bless America. Long Live America.

the advocacy falls short of incitement

But it doesn't fall short. It is incitement. What do you think they're preaching? They are inciting much more than rioting, they are advocating murder, and because you defend their actions make me wonder about you. Ever heard of conspiracy to murder? People get convicted on that all the time.

Since incitement is a legally defined term, I'll trust the judicial system to determine what is and isn't incitement... not you.

and because you defend their actions make me wonder about you.

First, I could really care less what you think of me... wonder all you want. I served to defend everyone's Constitutionally guaranteed rights... even those of people I disagree with.

It is the truly narrow-minded who cannot differentiate between defending someone's freedom of speech, and defending the content of what they are saying...

Ever heard of conspiracy to murder?

Yes, have you ever read the definition? In short, it is "an agreement of two or more people to commit a crime"... please, let me reiterate that it is an agreement between multiple people.

Spewing all the vile hatred you want in no way constitutes an agreement of any kind.

In short, it is "an agreement of two or more people to commit a crime"... please, let me reiterate that it is an agreement between multiple people.

Sheesh, how dumb can you be? If they're preaching in mosques to kill all infidels, don't you call that conspiracy to murder between LOTS of people???????????? The FBI will still investigate whether YOU and your PALS like it or not!

Does it help when you type in all-bold with lots and lots of extra punctuation? lol...

don't you call that conspiracy to murder between LOTS of people????????????

Um... see comment #15.8... I don't call it that, and if you do, go ahead... who cares? 'Cause what you determine to be conspiracy has less than jack @!$%# to do with what is legally defined as "conspiracy"... lol...

The FBI will still investigate whether YOU and your PALS like it or not!

Holy God Almighty! I MUST be conversing with a senior FBI official... how else could somebody possibly know what the FBI will or won't do? I stand corrected... clearly.

VC, an investigation doesn't mean anything... they investigate people constantly, without indictments, charges, etc. So the @!$%# what? If their investigations turn up evidence that something that someone does in violation of the standards applied to the 1st Amendment, then I'm sure we'll see charges filed... as well we should.

Must be too goddamn bad for you that you can't make policy, huh? lol... Good for the rest of us though, I'd hazard...

guys or gals you are living in some wishful thinking and dreams. We live in America - land of the free and brave and we are here since Christopher Columbus came - we showed him the direction to this land and settled in TX. We will fight for our rights if somene like you and peach or any Facists tried to take it from us.

God Bless America. Long Live America.

We will fight for our rights if somene like you and peach or any Facists tried to take it from us.

:)

Krishna

Haven't you heard? Norsam's convinced that the Muslims showed Columbus how to get to the New World. Without them, Columbus would have been out of luck...

and that all Americans have a debt to the Irish...

Ahem... one word, damnit Krish:

WHISKEY!

no need to fret and shiver for nothing britlassy.

peach

It seems to me frmom your hallucinating posts that you are about to have a nervous breakdown. I wonder if you must wake up several time during the night with that creepy crawling feeling of things around. I suggest in all good spirit yo go see a doctor for your condition in which you seem to living in nothing but imaginations.

I am sure just after you wrote the above you ran to Herald Square in NYC to see if I and SchmittyJ were really out there.

I am sure the law enforcement agencies in this country and abroad are much more vigilant and thanks to the cooperation of all law abiding citizens which include the all the muslims citizens from all walks of life evrywhere that we did not have another 9-11 type incidence. Hey we are all law abiding patriots of our country. The only difference is that you are looking for false imagined non existing ghosts, and becoming ghosts, and we are looking for the real criminals, perpetrators to protect our country from harm. Good Good USA. God Bless America. Long Live America

Peach,

Your suggestion is ridiculous and absurd... and, sadly, just about exactly what I would have expected.

There is such a vast gulf of difference between advocating your views on a video, and standing on a street corner screaming for doom and gloom in a city that still freshly bears the scars of a recent terrorist event. The latter would be an example which would fail the standards applied to protection under the 1st Amendment as it would more than likely cause public panic and create a real threat of imminent danger (via overreaction, stampeding, etc.). That would be akin to yelling "Fire!" in a crowded theater, which we all know fails the standards of free speech.

And, additionally, how completely expected that instead of actually addressing any of the things that I challenged your claims on, you instead fall back on, "Well, I dare you to... blah blah blah..."

Thanks SchmittyJ

Thats a good dose of reality and I think Peach should take(read) these oftenly to become real instead of being a ghost and seeing/perceiving everyone as ghost.

Schimitty,

I will address your question to Peach. The kind of hate speech that is said by radical Muslims falls under the hate crime laws. The Mathew Shepard Act, signed by President Obama, prohibits anyone from inciting an person or group of persons to acts of violence, by use of hate speech. At the present moment it is conservative christians who are the most vocal about this, since the goal of this law to to protect the rights of Gays. But in essence, anybody that says "Kill this one" falls under the purview of this law.

CNN did another story about just this thing, speakers on the street of NY preaching against America, standing outside of a Mosque they aren't members of, which teaches peace.

Protected by the Constitution of the country they detest, radical Muslim converts like Yousef al-Khattab and Younes Abdullah Mohammed preach that the killing of U.S. troops overseas is justified. In their thinking, so were the September 11, 2001, attacks on the United States -- and so are attacks on almost any American.

and

Law enforcement sources have told CNN the men walk right up to the line of protection under the First Amendment, but their message is not going unnoticed.

Al-Khattab handed CNN Correspondent Drew Griffin a business card from an FBI agent who he says is keeping tabs on him. The agent would not comment without clearance from his superiors, except to say, "Obviously, if they gave you my card, you know we are watching them."

The mosque has called police on Al-Khattab and Mohammed several times, and passers-by occasionally engage them in heated debates. Ali told CNN that ordinary Muslims are "disgusted with their behavior." But they insist they don't fight themselves, and don't incite others to do so.

Schmitty

You're dead wrong when you say

"standing on a street corner screaming for doom and gloom in a city that still freshly bears the scars of a recent terrorist event. The latter would be an example which would fail the standards applied to protection under the 1st Amendment as it would more than likely cause public panic and create a real threat of imminent danger (via overreaction, stampeding, etc.). That would be akin to yelling "Fire!" in a crowded theater, which we all know fails the standards of free speech."

New Yorkers don't panic and don't stampede. Even the nightmare of 9/11 did not elicit such a reaction from New Yorkers. We've been subjected to the most horrible of circumstances and no panic or stampedes ensued. You're talking about one of the most sophisticated cities in the world. At first you would be totally ignored but someone or many people would use their cell phones to call the police and within minutes you'd be faced with the anti-terrorist task force of the NYPD. They're not trained to play nice with would be terrorists. There's always a chance that some hothead might take it upon himself or herself to beat you to a pulp and others would join in. That's a risk you take when you threaten a country and its people.

I don't know exactly what would happen in other American cities. You certainly would not be welcome and you'd certainly be arrested. It's what would happen to you just before the authorities arrived that's up in the air and I would expect it to be different for each city.

All in all, my point is that what's being allowed in the UK will never ever be allowed in the US. So, my advice to Muslim terrorists who would advocate the overthrow of our govt and the killing of our citizens as they are doing in the UK is not to try it here...it won't be tolerated here. This is not the UK.

Thanks Perrie, I forgot about the Hate Crimes Laws.

Peach,

Great... we get it... you're knowledgeable on all things New York and law enforcement... does it help when you repeat:

You're dead wrong when you say

over and over and over, ad nauseum?

You certainly would not be welcome and you'd certainly be arrested. It's what would happen to you just before the authorities arrived that's up in the air and I would expect it to be different for each city.

More baseless predictions... the core of a solid argument, obviously.

Schmitty

And your point is????

Firstly, you're right...I am a New Yorker and have been my entire life...even entirely educated in NYC through graduate school. You're wrong about my knowing everything there is to know about law enforcement. I know what I read in the newspapers and what I learn from the evening news, and Sunday news program. Nothing more...I have absolutely no connection to law enforcement.

But, there's one thing that's for sure. I love my country and our way of life. Americans in general feel the same way I do. We won't tolerate a dress wearing muslim terrorist or anyone for that matter threatening our way of life and our country...it's just not going to be allowed to happen here. I'm totally astounded that the UK allowed these people to have the audacity to be as vocal as they are with their murderous intentions.

Not happening here...

Peach,

A fellow New Yorker! I went to Queens College undergrad and Baruch for Graduate School.

As for the UK, I grew up between London and NYC. I just came back from there and there is a terrible backlash going on in that country. Because they have had now 12 or more years of the Labour party, and Labour has been turning a blind eye to what has been going on in the UK, many of the middle and working class have been drawn to the BNP, which is the Neo-Nazi movement. I was utterly horrified to find so many regular people who either voted BNP or are considering joining if the Tories don't get win in the next election. The BNP won 2 seats in the EU Parliament in the last election, and I am afraid that this is just the beginning if things don't change over there. The greater Muslim population are not doing themselves a favor by not countering the radical Muslims. For many years Muslims have lived in the UK in peace. But this very vocal and hateful group is changing the dynamics for the whole population of Muslims within the UK. If they don't watch it, Nick Griffin, who is the leader of the BNP, gains any more power within the UK, they might find themselves deported or worse.

Schmitty
And your point is????

Peach, my point is that America is a nation of tolerance... that is part of the problem that we have with fundamentalists of all creeds. Fundamentalism is diametrically opposed to tolerance.

We won't tolerate a dress wearing muslim terrorist or anyone for that matter threatening our way of life and our country...it's just not going to be allowed to happen here.

Um, yes... we have and we will to the point that it fails the standards applied to the freedom of speech guaranteed by the 1st Amendment. Even to the point that it happens and is "tolerated" in your own backyard. Muslim groups quoting the Qu'ran and citing passages regarding "striking at infidels" happens unmolested in the streets of NYC.

VIDEO HERE

I'm not saying that I agree with these jackasses... their bastardization of Islam by picking and choosing the parts of the book advocating violence is abhorrent. But it occurs in some circles of Christianity as well.

I'm not advocating that anyone else buy into this rabid extolation, either... for obvious reasons.

What I am asserting however, is that we, as a nation, pride ourselves on our freedoms more than most other things. It's part of how we define ourselves, and is marked by tolerance.

Of course even tolerance must be tempered by vigilance when threats are made against the common good, as the standards applied to the 1st Amendment provide. But we allow people to speak their peace up to the point where it butts up against that line...

Perrie

I really feel badly for the UK. Tourism will totally suffer and as a result the country's economy will suffer. The last time I was in London, I was overwhelmed by the aggressive presence of the huge Muslim community. I thought I was in Pakistan and not London. London has lost its british character and that's too bad.

We can't allow this to happen in this country. It would be horrible.

As far as school, I went to NYU for undergrad and Columbia for graduate school. Typical path for many New Yorkers.

Schmitty

Ok, I agree that we have to make sure that freedom of speech is never taken for granted and never taken away lightly. However, as you point out, there comes a point when the line between safeguarding one's rights and the rights of an entire city or country is crossed. That line was crossed by the militant muslim groups in the UK and we definitely can't allow them to even think of doing the same thing in this country.

As a New Yorker, I lived through 9/11 and I can't forget what I saw, smelled, and witnessed on that day. Muslims are not a welcome sight in this city. They're tolerated...at best. No more than that.

I also lived through 9/11 and I have to say, that although I don't have as strong of a feeling that Peach expressed about Muslims, I do remember seeing on the news that the Iranian's held a candle light vigil for the victims of 9/11. I also remember Pakistanis partying it up at National Wholesale Liquidators, here in NYC on the news, too. There is good and bad everywhere, and that includes Muslims. But I must say, that one must be aware of currents that are running through this community.

Don't show that to Maria...she'll say it's a lie.

Or-- that we deserved what happened on 911...???

Oh no she didn't!

Sounds about right.

totally agree!

ebookout,

Thanks for that great quote from Prime Minister Howard, one of America's true allies. With only minor changes, that very same statement could apply here. If only our leadership were as bold and forthright. That's the only way we're going to preserve the union.

Do a little research and find out what was REALLY said and who REALLY said it, before you start accepting everything as fact!

Do a little research and find out what was REALLY said and who REALLY said it, before you start accepting everything as fact!

Uh oh...looks like trouble in Paradise.

By the way, what was really said and who really said it, Dave? Just curious. Link it so I can take a peak at it.

dkaz - "The" Google is actually very simple to use.

http://www.hoax-slayer.com/howard-muslim-speech.shtml

"The" Google is actually very simple to use.

Yes it is, Dave. I use it a lot. I just need to know what I'm linking to. I have never heard of "hoax-slayer.com" but I have now. Thank you.

Here Dave. Snopes.com is actually very simple to use too.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/australia.asp

dkaz - What's this now, oneupmanship over the credibility of supporting websites?

And BTW - You're taking a PEEK at it.

You're taking a PEEK at it.

Mind/finger slippage. Happens all the time. Wait until you see me screw up "there", "their" and "they're". You'll really slap your knee over that one. Oh to be perfect like so many on the Vine are.

Dave,

Calm down...

Your remark:

dkaz - "The" Google is actually very simple to use.

Sounded kind of smug when you made it to dkaz. Then you compounded it by a spelling correction.....

Not necessary or polite.

Perrie -

By the way, what was really said and who really said it, Dave? Just curious.

dkaz indicated that he can use Google, so why the need for me to explain to him what takes 0.0039 sec. for him to find out himself?

dkaz - "The" Google is actually very simple to use.

Sounded kind of smug when you made it to dkaz. Then you compounded it by a spelling correction.....

Not necessary or polite.

Thank you Perrie for catching that. I caught it too but in Dave's defense, I can't hear his voice or the expression in it. So if we were on the phone, we might have had a good laugh over it. That's why I try to read each comment with a bit of humor overtone to it. Unless they sound like real tools. Dave was just being...........Dave.......and showing us a bit of Daves character.

Dave,

dkaz indicated that he can use Google, so why the need for me to explain to him what takes 0.0039 sec. for him to find out himself?

Look at comment 19.5, our first encounter. I didn't say I used Google. I simply asked you to provide a link so that I could read what you were talking about. I like keeping my mind open to all possibilities and I like checking the facts. I also thought I asked you politely. You came back with what sounded like a snide remark in 19.6. But, I've heard snide before, so it's no big thing.

As for the "he" and "himself" reference. I didn't want to tell you this but, after getting out of the shower this morning and drying off the 40DD's I'm sporting, I don't know Dave, but I'm kind of looking like a "she" and a "herself".

So, to get this thing back on track, thank you again for the link. Sorry if I took you away from something more important. I'll make a mental note not to disturb you again for any help.

Happy Thanksgiving to you and your family, Dave. Oops! Sorry. I just noticed you're from Canada. My mistake.

Sorry Dave,

I didn't know that you and dkaz knew each other. I tend to be defensive of my friends and I have this thing about being polite in dialogs.

Perrie,

Read from 19.5 down. This is the first time I've ran into him. And it's on your article so it's all your fault.......[P.S...The first clue is he doesn't know I'm a "she".]

If we end up getting married and living happily ever after, remember it's all your fault.

Oh yeah! He did call you a he, LOL!

Do you think Dave thinks I'm a he? Most Perries are.

For the record, I'm a girl.

I think the "ie" after your name is a dead give away. But then again, maybe Dave thinks the TV show he use to watch was called "Perrie Mason".

You're a girl? Naaah. Dave wants proof. He emailed me and told me.

want to see those nude photos..just for proof

Uh... are there any? lol...

Where's the photographer?

the more I think that it might be a good idea for us all to be, if snything, even a bit overly courteous. And when uncertain as to a person's intentions-- give them the benefit of the doubt (after all, occasionally there is a tendency to misinterpret things online).

I debated with someone who had "wolf" in his name and it was a lengthy exchange. Not once did either one of us lose our cool. It was point/counterpoint. At the end, we called it a draw. He made his case and I made mine. I then thanked him for being one of the best debaters I had ever ran into on the Vine. He gave me the same kudos and we both went on our merry ways. I was open to all of his ideas as he was mine but to accept them wasn't going to happen. He had his opinon, I had mine and we respected each other for it.

So many people don't stay with attacking ideas-- and turn it instead into an attack on ithe other person.

And that's when I say what I have to say then get the hell out of there. The Vine is too big to stay in one place while someone tries to beat their belief system into me.

I have to agree!

Go get him and try installing him on us president by force or overthrow. LOL

Go get him and try installing him on us president by force or overthrow. LOL

Your words, not mine. :)

try installing him on us president

Or we could simply wait until obama's minions get the law changed to allow non-American born people to become president...

Anyone holding John Howard's views on immigration would be a great choice for president, one which would greatly benefit USA. It would be wonderful if we could find such a champion in time for the 2012 elections.

I remember when the majority of the USA displayed such patriotism.

Krishna

It's a secret...you need the special decoder ring to decipher the meaning of that incomprehensible sentence.

norsam and smitty, you're bullies. You try to belittle and install fear.

Belittle? Um, by trying to get you to make even one valid point?

And I'm guessing you meant "instill fear," right? Um, again... how exactly? Is it by making doom and gloom predictions of what a future U.S. could look like "When the Muslims Attacked!"? Wait, no... that be some other people here... Is it by arguing that everyone is protected by the 1st Amendment (given parameters)? Yeah, there's nothing like the 1st Amendment to instill fear... LMAO!

Come on Schmitty,

You know what Peach means, and you are trying to belittle her. There are extremist Muslims, who engage in hate speech that borders on the thin line between Freedom of Speech and the Hate Crime Laws, and could incite people to take violent action.

I mean, there were those who wanted Bill O'Reilly brought up on charges under the Hate Crime Laws for the death of Dr. Tiller, because he kept calling Dr. Tiller a baby murder. Gee...I wonder if that had an effect on the guy that killed Tiller? There is that fine line that exists between freedom of speech and incitement to commit a violent act, and I think that you are smart enough to know the difference.

Corie

I remember when the majority of the USA displayed such patriotism.

That was before the Nation became so weak, and worried about being PC, and before we had the arrogance of the Islamic Nation, telling 'us' how we must accept their ways or they will use our 'creed of Freedom' against us, by crying bigotry and discrimination. All escalated since Obama took office.

When Obummer....er Obama was just a Senator, he was on stage with Hillary in Texas, and the National Anthem was being played(with the Flag present) and everyone covered their hearts but him.(The pictures are from Time Magazine)

Patriotism is not on his agenda.

Very Concerned

just love John Howard. I wish he was OUR president!!!!!

I agree, anyone at this point, The McDonalds Clown would be better ..at least we would know it was MEANT to be a joke.

Schmitty

Make a suggestion as to what should be done with al-Awlaki. He's never done anything himself but use his speeches to incite violence, beheadings, and absolute mayhem across the world. He's an American born citizen and he obviously hates this country and wants it to disappear.

Let us know if you support the idea of freedom of speech for this monster or do you think that he's crossed that line that would justify depriving him of any rights.

Make a suggestion as to what should be done with al-Awlaki.

I would, but for two things:

First, I'll admit that I'm unaware of al-Awlaki for the most part. I know of who he is, but the specific details of his messages (which are largely in Arabic, or Farsi or something from the little I looked) I don't know much about. I can say that from what I know, situations that are applied to the standards of the limits of the 1st Amendment are done on an individual instance case... so you'd need to provide a specific example of one of his messages.

Secondly, this seed isn't really the place for that... we've all rather derailed this thread from the scope of the article... myself included. So, sorry Krish... the article is about the goings-on in the UK, not the application of American Constitutional guarantees. So, if you post a seed about al-Awlaki, I'd be happy to discuss the issue there.

Britlassy

...anyone at this point, The McDonalds Clown would be better ..at least we would know it was MEANT to be a joke.

As has become a habit for me, I am once again in total agreement with your comment.